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Hi all,
I’m looking to relocate to Seattle. Does anyone know if any of the Big 4 are still recruiting campus hires to start in Summer/Fall 2023? I’m open to either Audit or Tax, but I have internship experience in Tax.
I applied and received an offer at a Big 4 in San Francisco (campus hire), but I’ve decided Seattle is the better fit for me as it will be closer to my hometown and family in Vancouver.
Thanks!
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Let’s be real, in the vast majority of cases it’s because they couldn’t get a job at a big law firm (speaking as a JD for whom this is the case). Big 4 used to be more a QOL choice for people, but honestly the gap there has tightened to an extent in the last few years. Just not worth it to get paid so much less just to work 10% fewer hours or whatever. And even if you want to say partnership prospects are better here, Big 4 will always be happy to bring people in from law firms, while that is not the case the other way around.
And in what big law firm would you NOT work more than those hours?
I’m a JD/LLM that used to work in Big Law. I’m a manager in a special tax practice group and my pay is comparable. At Big Law to get all the bonuses that put me at the ridiculously high number I had bill goal of 2450 hours / year. Which I felt was literally killing me. Also, overall the pay ceiling at a Big 4 is (much) higher than Big Law. Also, a trend becoming more popular is to promote associates to non-equity partners. Which is sort of a kiss of death for your career overall. Also, you may not realize just how much Big 4 runs the world. Especially in tax. I remember reading an ABA article about how Big Law actually works for the Big 4. The revenue and number of people is just massive compared to Big Law. I also feel like since I started Big 4 my skills have gotten so much better. You asked my opinion... I could, and still do, get offers to return to Big Law.
In the early years, big law associates definitely make more. I moved from big law to big 4 as a sixth year big law associate. Came in as a senior manager and received a 10% pay bump. Sure, my raises have been less than I would have received had I stayed in big law, but I’m working SIGNIFICANTLY fewer hours. I was regularly billing 70-80 hrs/wk. Now I’m billing 50-60. That trade off is definitely worth it to me.
Significantly less hours. Slightly less comp. Echoing another comment, but once you’re actually working in tax law at a law firm, you realize how much more of the interesting work happens at Big 4.
I actually really like the accounting aspect of Big 4 and prefer the mix. I also don’t enjoy M&A and drafting contract tax language or litigating so Big 4 better suits what I like to do.
Upward mobility and flexibility. Yes at the lower levels getting you're getting kneecapped on pay, but big law doesn't force partners into retirement as early as B4 does (some firms don't even have forced retirement policies). You can get trapped as an associate waiting for a partner to retire or die to make room for you. Accounting firms also seem to be way more technical/involved in thought leadership, which was more appealing to me. With the exception of a few major areas in tax (M&A, PE, International, Litigation, etc.) most of the big law firms don't even bother to compete in some of the speciality spaces. Plus if your group isn't doing well or you want to do something different, seems like it's a lot easier to move to another group within a Big 4 rather than having to jump to a new firm. I have friends who are in big law and they all are miserable or trying to get out. Billing 2100+ client chargeable hours a year may sound easy enough, but honestly how many of us actually close out the year >100% utilized?
PwC 1 — thanks for your honesty.... (:
I started when law firm jobs were hard to find. I stayed instead of moving over to big law because I have kids and I need the work life balance. I like seeing my children.
It's a good question. I have friends that left for big law and never want to come back, and I have friends that came from big law and never want to go back. In my experience, it comes down to the work life balance people want to achieve.
what's the average pay for you JD/llms and what city and practice group